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Forum:2017-12-11 (Monday)
Discussion for comic for . Many editors make long wikis. ---- "I call a truce"? Is this a game to them? Why should the smoke knights pay any attention to their enemy wanting a truce? It's not as if they can negotiate a compromise in which Agatha gets the top half of Tarvek and Grandmother gets the bottom half. I keep parsing her epaulette in panel 5 as Tarvek's hand on her shoulder to convey sympathy. But I guess she'd probably cut it off. Tarvek is really cute in panel 2 -- he looks ten years old. Bkharvey (talk) 05:58, December 11, 2017 (UTC) : Tarvek spells it out- they agree to a truce because they all want Tarvek alive, and until proven otherwise they have to assume that Party #3 wants to kill him. So they jointly deal with the new threat then go back to deciding who carries Tarvek away from all this. Or it turns out that P#3 is reinforcement for one side or the other, which might also decide the issue. : Just nice to Smoke Knights having to work at something.--Geoduck42 (talk) 06:05, December 11, 2017 (UTC) ::: I guess... but the people doing the actual fighting aren't looking around through telescopes; they're busy. So how would they even know there is a party 3? Bkharvey (talk) 06:08, December 11, 2017 (UTC) ::::: In the fourth panel, the incoming airship is clearly visible without need for any telescopes, and if you don't have situational awareness, you don't last long as a pirate or a Smoke Knight. --Geoduck42 (talk) 13:51, December 11, 2017 (UTC) ::::::: Ah. That's two more things I'm not going to be when I grow up. Bkharvey (talk) 19:08, December 11, 2017 (UTC) ::::::: P.S. "You are so lucky" in the last panel is a reminder of Bang saying the same thing in a similar situation the first time Tarvek was kidnapped. Poor Tarvek... Bkharvey (talk) 19:51, December 11, 2017 (UTC) Ninjas! Pirates! Robots! My money is on the robots. -- SpareParts (talk) 01:31, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :Could be zombies. Yay, an airship full of shambler revs. Or Passholdt-style fast revs. --MadCat221 (talk) 07:36, December 12, 2017 (UTC) Hey, I apologize for reposting this, but it's driving me crazy: The more I think about it, the less I understand Grandmother's motivation. She was willing to let Tarvek run around Paris, and Mechanicsburg, and so on. I suppose what's different now is that Tweedle has made his claim to the throne, and she doesn't want two claimants. But still, is she planning to keep Tarvek locked up forever, like the Man in the Iron Mask, or what? Surely the master manipulator could instead find some way to make it be in his interest not to make trouble. Bkharvey (talk) 05:54, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :Him running around Mechanicsburg might have been more of grandfathers doing, or just thw family beeing to split for eather of them to exarcise that kind of kontroll over him? Agge.se (talk) 09:47, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :"Willing to let him run around Mechanicsburg"? Grandma isn't omnipotent, it was a literal warzone and even before the main fighting started the asset the family did have in place got herself killed trying to assassinate Klaus. The bigger problem is we still have no real idea what Grandma's ultimate goals are, or who she would genuinely perfer to see as Storm King, Tweedle or Tarvek. --Geoduck42 (talk) 17:20, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :Unless Seffie was lying to Tweedle, we know that Grandmother would have accepted either of them, but that was before the party in Paris. If she's not on Tweedle's side now, then her planning is much more subtle than I can understand. I've been thinking that Tweedle as Storm King is pretty much a done deal now. I see two broad possibilities for what she wants from Tarvek: :1. What she wants is an action. What can Tarvek do to improve the family's situation? If she wants him to be Storm King, as you suggest, Geoduck42, then the last thing she should do is give him cause to resent her. Other possibilities: She could want him to marry Agatha -- but then she'd be happy for him to go to England. She could want him to use his knowledge of Lucrezia's mind control technology to... to what? Help or hurt the Other? If help, then she must not know Tarvek has renounced that idea. If hurt, then she should want him with Agatha. I can't think of any other significant use of Tarvek. (If it's something a generic smoke knight could do, she has plenty of those.) :2. What she wants is that he refrain from an action. The obvious one is fighting Tweedle, but if that's it, she should just tell him so. Maybe she wants him not to get the Other out of Agatha? I suppose that would make kidnapping him make sense. We really need to know what her plans for Zola are... Bkharvey (talk) 20:07, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :: You bring up a lot of interesting possibilities. The problem is, we don't have much to go on. I believe if Grandma wanted him to not do something, she would just have killed him. More effective and she had ample opportunity. I have a theory. I think she wants to crush the Other, publicly, in a setting where her family / the Storm King candidate gets all the credit. That would be such a nice story to establish a new king, destroy the evil and all that. Tarvek's knowledge about Lucrezia's technology makes him a very useful card for that game, regardless of whether he ends up being the star pretender or not. I think she helped Zola leave Paris for that reason. If she had been caught in Paris, it would have been Colette's victory, not the Storm King's victory. Whether Grandma wants Tweedle on the throne or not is an interesting question. She has openly supported him, but she made sure Tarvek attended the party and told him it would be educational. Whatever that meant. She might want to play them against each other, she might be still weighing her options before deciding who has the better chances. She might want to keep a spare in case Martellus starts getting too independent. No idea. :: As for why she kept him locked up instead of talking him into staying, well, she might have plans to make Tarvek cooperate. But she didn't have that much time to implement them. Tarvek arrived just before the party, then there were zombies and shenanigans, then Tarvek was abducted by Seffie. I'd really like to know what she's planning. MasakoRei (talk) 22:02, December 12, 2017 (UTC) :::: Well at least it's not an everyone-else-gets-it situation. I guess we just have to wait and see. Bkharvey (talk) 22:32, December 12, 2017 (UTC) : From Grandma's cool demeanor and detachment from the whole series of plots and counter-plots, I get the impression that her primary goals are not really threatened by one choice or another, but instead she is thinking in a very different direction and on a whole different level. I am intrigued by the idea of her focusing on the ultimate showdown with the Other rather than getting too tied up in the immediate politics, as that seems to be something in line with both her behavior in Paris and her ability to live to a nice old age as the head of two major houses (and the Smoke Knights to boot)! ::: Oh, interesting! She seems to know that Zola can command revenants, but doesn't squish her. I suppose it's tactially better to squish all instances of the Other at once, but that gets harder as she reproduces herself, both in host people and in host clanks. But your theory would explain her willingness for Gil to rule the world rather than insisting on a Storm King (although she's happy with that too). Bkharvey (talk) 08:55, December 14, 2017 (UTC)